They didn't talk, and they weren't friendly. I think that that's a big problem, very serious problem in contemporary, you know, and basically where a collector-dealer can make a market for their particular artists by using friends and colleagues to install things in institutions to give them that curatorial imprimatur. How did that acquisition come about? I don't know exactly how long, but he lived a long time. But Iyou know, I think there was a book out that came out around that time that was local, by Carl Crossman, this sort of auctioneer up in New England. [00:16:00]. And there was a, you know, there was a large group, and they were giving a lecture on the Counter-Reformation and how this painting perfectly encapsulates the Counter-Reformation becauseand you fill in the blank. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, the dealers that I would say, you know, rise to the level ofeven though they're inadvertent, because they don't know that they areI would say mentors, Johnny Van Haeften and Otto Naumann for sure. So what we had to focus on was, Were they 20th-century, or 19th-century with apocryphal marks? She said, "Those are the kids," meaning that's the young crowd that they get, you know, that's the 60-to-80 crowd instead of the 80-to-100 crowd. And, I mean, it's an enormous orbit. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, I tried. L-E-Y-S-E-N. And he's also involved with the Corpus Rubenianum; he's a great charitable giver. I wanted to have a three-day ceratopsian symposium, which they did a wonderful job of. JUDITH RICHARDS: everything that's going on. And so theyI put it on a seven-year loan there, and then at the end of seven years, there were a number of stipulations. It was, you know, it was Rome. And heby the time I knew him, he had retired as, I think, the 50- or 60-year chief engineer of Grumman Aerospace, sofor their plants, not for their aircraft manufacturing. [00:18:00]. [00:50:05]. Do you get, CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, no. Very nice man, and very giving of his time, very kind person. And you know, we had sort of half-begging, half-boasting meetings where we said, "Yes, we know the boy got all Fs in high school. So there wasn't any collecting going on at that point. I mean, a story I'm obsessed with is theis the German scientist who invented the nitrate process for fertilizer, because in his hands lies the population explosion of the 20th century. And I'm, you know, this is probablyI'm trying to think what year it is. But we have some legacy of where certain pieces went, and I was able to track some pieces down later in life. JUDITH RICHARDS: So this is a field where you're not cultivating auction catalogues and, CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, I mean, that's the field. You know? JUDITH RICHARDS: Well, that's it. And did art play any role in that? "Oh, okay, thisall this 19th-century porcelain. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Hands on. JUDITH RICHARDS: So that really transformed the Worcester Art Museum. To me, the Met is visiting friends, you know, visiting pictures that, you know, I know from [laughs]I look at the granular level of certain paintings because I know them very well. CLIFFORD SCHORER: and previously had been unassociated. $17. JUDITH RICHARDS: You mentioned the Snyders House, the Rubens House, and one more. Because I know I started my business in 1983, in March, and that wasI was 17 then. I felt authenticity when I saw it. So I had readI forgot which painting it was; it was the [Bernardo] Strozzi. JUDITH RICHARDS: So coming back to your, CLIFFORD SCHORER: family. We made our own paint. ONE SIZE ONE SIZE 16.0cm10.8cm5.3cm ! . CLIFFORD SCHORER: Sure. This is my third bite at the apple, and I wasn't going to lose it this time. And he bought it for the museum. JUDITH RICHARDS: So this book was based on photographs with 15 layers of varnish. That are in, you know, the rarefied collectors' hands. And so, you know, I hadI marched myself right downstairs, and I said, you know, "Come on, guys, that's notyou know that's not me." Every game was played. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I mean, I bought aand that's when I started buying paintings. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Don't ever give me that entre. So, it's the, CLIFFORD SCHORER: it's the hunt, the pursuit, the discovery, the investigation, the scholarship, the writing. You know, finding things that people just miss. I can't play anymore. JUDITH RICHARDS: And you talked about enjoying lending. CLIFFORD SCHORER: One hopes. I mean, you readwith this contemporary art market soaring. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Absolutely. Had you been involved with other institutions before then? JUDITH RICHARDS: And issues or concerns about it, too. [Laughs.] Winslow Homer Home, Sweet Home, c. 1863. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I was 16 going on 17, yeah. They wanted to put the screaming woman in the colon or something. CLIFFORD SCHORER: The MFA. Clifford Schorer (1966- ) is an art collector in Boston, Massachusetts and London, England. So all day and night we send pictures back and forth by WhatsApp going, "Do we think this is this? There's a plaque to my grandfather, dedicated to my grandfather, but it doesn't say anything about me. JUDITH RICHARDS: When you were doing research and you were reading auction catalogues, those are catalogues with the sale prices written in. And so, those are wonderful. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I believe so, yeah. You know, they had the large office. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So this was an incredible object. So Chinese domestic production for, you know, a very much more refined clientele, because I had developed [00:36:02]. . In other words, you're trying to build a collection that educates you, that is much more important than just the visual experience of it, that gives a sense of art history. [Affirmative.] JUDITH RICHARDS: So that's a huge change? Any object there that might have a mark. CLIFFORD SCHORER: In that area, I started reading a lot more of the sort of first-tier auction catalogues regularlyyou know, regularly. second chance body armor level 3a; notevil search engine. I'm actually building a building in Massachusetts for that, which. He says, "You want to have lunch tomorrow?". CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. [00:04:00]. JUDITH RICHARDS: Were therewas it a big decision for you to become involved on that level with. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So, saw them, bought them; in one case, I'll give credit to someone else because it's his discovery of the lot, but I would see them and buy them and then, you know, we would basically spend time working on them. Jon Landau I certainly know more. And often, they were strange variations on Chinese stories made for an American market or made for a British market or made for a French market. Eagle Head,Manchester, Massachusetts (High Tide), 1870 Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York City The Herring Net, 1885 Art Institute of Chicago Winslow Homer is undoubtedly one of the foremost artists of the United States in the 19th century. Funding for this interview was provided by Barbara Fleischman. JUDITH RICHARDS: He took a more traditional path. I mean, it just didn'tI just didn't understand the narrative. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes. JUDITH RICHARDS: Outside of the United States? So I do have some sculptures in there. And I said, you know, "Thanks for that." And so there I found that, you know, I was able to do a very nice return on equity and do something I enjoyed and run around on airplanes looking at pictures that I wanted to look at. CLIFFORD SCHORER: That would've been a little bit early. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So by the time I was 20, I started collecting, you know, monochrome from the Song period. And they say, "Well, 15 percent is outrageous! You know, by the time you're done with all of those things, youyou know, your five percent or seven-and-a-half percent commission is completely consumed, and then some. My father was absent because he was enjoined from being present. Clifford A Schorer We found 23 records for Clifford A Schorer in undefined. And, you knowand I sent them a commendation letter afterwards. Not that my collection is that important, but even the idea that I'm sort of peeling off the wheat from the chaff in any way. [00:22:00], CLIFFORD SCHORER: You'll never be done. 1. Like a Boule chandelier. Yeah. Do they focus entirely on Rubens or Rubens and his, CLIFFORD SCHORER: Rubens and his orbit, yeah. Three, four years. So all of the art that he did have was gone. I'm not, JUDITH RICHARDS: Is there a board that you're, CLIFFORD SCHORER: The structure is executive director is Anthony Crichton-Stuart, yeah. JUDITH RICHARDS: Because how you define a collection and the price point? [00:08:00], CLIFFORD SCHORER: So he would've comehe would've come into America then, and didn't speak English becausefrom what I could tell, his English was a second languageand then became an engineer. I mean, I would certainly say that having a gallery creates an inherent conflict of interest that I have to think carefully about. Winslow Homer. I mean, they'reyou know, the Corsini are known, you know, a very famous Italian family, and there was one member of the family who was an art dealer. JUDITH RICHARDS: Is this partly an interest in history? CLIFFORD SCHORER: In the Boston area. CLIFFORD SCHORER: The gallery used to own a building in New York before 2008, which they sold. CLIFFORD SCHORER: You know that these regional areas in Bulgaria were the places where they found the Thracian gold hoards, and then, of course, the national government took it all away from them. I think that's fantastic. Literally, very, very inexpensive. I mean, the output of those workshops was massive, massive. I brought an entire chair, a French chair, into the passenger cabin. JUDITH RICHARDS: Did youdo you spend most of your timedo you reside mostly in London now? JUDITH RICHARDS: Did you talk to him about collecting at all? They're rare, of course. But the idea of putting them out there so that other scholars may see these little connections that I sit and ponder over in my living room. I mean, I found a conflict the other night at the collections committee advisory meeting at Worcester. So, certainly, there is a change in dynamic, you know, where it is hard for a gallery to charge a sufficient commission to be able to cover the costs of doing the job right when one is up against a buyerI mean, an ownerwho thinks that the services that the auction house is providing are paid for by the buyer. And eventually we agreed to part friends. But I met a few dealers that I still know. As they tend to do. Are there light issues with the materials that you collect, and has that beenor had an impact on your home? JUDITH RICHARDS: Did you ever think about collecting drawings or prints? I think I got out of fourth grade by writing the brief military history of World War II for the entire year, because the teacher couldn't stand me [laughs], so she let me have the year off to write my military history, which I was obsessed with. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No. CLIFFORD SCHORER: You know, I know that. In the case of the Museum of Science, I think initially they wantedinitially I was anonymous, and then I think they really wanted my name. [00:22:01], CLIFFORD SCHORER: I mean, that'syou know, as a six-year-old or something, I remember that. I mean, paleontology, you have to understand, is the rarity of those objects, compared to the paintings we're talking about. And I don't think that a manual was consulted more than once. Rita Albertson at the Worcester Art Museum did a phenomenal restoration. They have these kindthey have everything from 19th-century styles to very Modernist styles, and it'sit gives us a chance to say, you know, here's a modern interior, with a beautiful thing. Winslow Homer Biography. We didsoand I decided to do my homage to Carlo Crivelli. We just have a little more time today perhaps, if you want to take more time? Because, actually, I got rid of the Victorian, and I now live in a Gropius house. If they own the work, they would certainly love to have any preparatory works that relate to it in their PDP collections, in their works on paper collection. JUDITH RICHARDS: You were traveling a lot in the '80s. [Affirmative.] So I was independent; I mean, I was independent from a very young age. A Roman mosaic. But no, I mean, I can'tI didn't think it was a subjectI understood that it wasthese were products made for the export market. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes, no, no, I mean, I had particular moments in cities, but, yes. [00:02:00]. Yeah, well, this was an early, early. He said, "Yes, I'm Jim." [00:35:58]. I mean, I'm very social. CLIFFORD SCHORER: That is related to Agnew's. Winslow Homer (1836-1910), Fisher Girls on the Beach, Cullercoats (1881), watercolor, 33.4 49.3 cm, Brooklyn Museum, New York, NY. Yeah, about a year. CLIFFORD SCHORER: There weren'tthere weren't. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, no, but you know what I mean. I don't know that I ever, CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes, no, no, other than going there and looking at things. There can beyou know, that's much more of a contemporary problem. Because you know, thenand you understand what happens there. And I think we ended up on "Anonymous," because I think that's what I wanted to do, but because of the plaque that's dedicated to my grandfather, people can figure it out. [00:42:05]. Noortman was the gallery that was, you know, a very successful Dutch dealer, Robert Noortman. [Laughs.] You know, because she died in this plague. Right now I'm down to one 40,000-square-foot building. We know that T Dowell, Tylden B Dowell, and five other persons also lived at this address, perhaps within a different time frame. CLIFFORD SCHORER: This was '85, '86-ish, I think. It was a very protracted process. JUDITH RICHARDS: Did you read art magazines? CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah, the experiences, the moments, and all of that. I'm trying to remember the estimate; I think the estimate was either [$]2 to 3 million, or 1.5 to 2.5, but it was very enticing compared to the asking price. But no, I mean, it's not [00:40:05]. JUDITH RICHARDS: Restorations that are hidden? And being a sort of mariner and obsessed with the mariners of, you know, the 19th century. Beyond. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Mm-hmm. I especially, of course, remember the Egyptian things. And I saw Daniele Crespi as an artist who is equally competent but died so young that he never really established his name. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Daniel Schorer. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No. I think she's working throughin one of the institutions. Is this Crespi?" JUDITH RICHARDS: It sounds like it was athe attraction to you was partly the art and the visual experience, and the business history. Just because there was more material in the market. I mean, I know it's an exciting moment; you start a business. And in my new home in BostonI just got a small place to replace my big house because I needed a place to sleep when I'm in Boston. what percentage of baby boomers are millionaires post oak hotel sunday brunch gator patch vs gator pave white sands footprints science. I collect Dutch still lifes; I collect," you know, fill in the blank. JUDITH RICHARDS: And the installation decisions? But in general, we're not [laughs] going to be the maker of manners in that conversation. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And also, you know, there are people who make it a life's pursuit, and they put a team together and they go out every summer, and I'd love to do that, but I don't have time in life to do that, so. JUDITH RICHARDS: So you donated the piece, or you donated the funds for them to purchase the piece? CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, the big London galleries. You walk in; there's no receptionist. You know, military. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes, I mean, my house is always very sort of Victorian curtains and heavy, heavy, heavy, to the chagrin of everybody. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And then we get on our airplanes, and we start flying around, looking for things, yeah. [00:54:00]. And my mother was. And that was because they could be. And I think if you're focused enough to stay on the object, you know, to think at core about the transaction with your object and not listen to all the other noise and hype and marketing and, you know, all of that, and if you can learn as much as you can about that one object you're interested in, if you lose this one, so be it, you know. JUDITH RICHARDS: So instead of collecting for yourself, CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah, I'm thinking about now collecting in a different way. [00:12:00]. I had this library that I carted around with me on my back, so to speak, from little apartment to little apartment. When Harper's sent him to Virginia to cover the Civil War, he found his forte in closely observing camp life, attending to "the ordinary foot soldier," Cross notes, "not the general . So, no. And just, you know, wander around and pull books. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So there are those who were present that were important to me, and there's one figure who was not present who was very important to me. JUDITH RICHARDS: I see. So that kind of closed that circle, but. I said, "Well, you know, that's exciting news." Absolutely. Oh, no. And sure enough, like a year later, the bronze show comes to London, and there it is with thein fullyou know, 100 greatest objects in bronze. CLIFFORD SCHORER: We will have a viewing space in New York, but that's all. The circle was so small that you were sitting at a table with everybody that could be interested in that same object, at the same table, and you could actually talk to all of them. 3) Example 2: Create New Variable Based On Other Columns Using transform () F I was followed by a security guardthe wholejust followed around. So Iyou know, again, the same thing. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, I go to London about seven days a month, and again, you know, the gallery operates on its own. I had this Dutch East India commemorative bowl, which I bought very early on, which I was very, very pleased with, which she just sold to a collector who wanted a Dutch East India commemorative bowl, which I think is fun because the Dutch connection, of coursethe Dutch fueled their money addiction and their art addiction by trading. And at the end of that exerciseI have some wonderful photos of that house, because it wasI sold that house two years agoand it was a long process. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah, in one case they were actually in the same apartment where the family had sold them from years before. So, sure, I read, you know, whatever I could find. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I had access to, you know, a virtual warehouse full of them. You know. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, I mean, you know, the only thing I would add to that last statement is that, in the gallery world, I think that everybody I know does it for love and not for money. JUDITH RICHARDS: So this was the mid-'80s? We drove my van, actually. Clifford J. Schorer is known for Plutonium Baby (1987). [Laughs. But for those moments of flourishing, when they were a key point, you know, look what they produced. And so, yes, there are those amazing, you know, random fate intersections, but they're notthey're certainly not something that happen often enough to warrant, you know, CLIFFORD SCHORER: Five years later, I might find a, you know, Salvator Rosa figure, or a print. Has that changed over the years in the fieldthe painting field that you collect in; the level of competition? So you haveyou know, you haveif you added all of that up and then inflated that with inflation, it probably still wouldn't equal one major sale today, because art inflation is actually much higher than monetary inflation. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So I was livingI was in Paris a lot. It sounds, from what you've said, that you prefer a level of anonymity with your loans and your donations. I didn't. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. I mean, my eye has changed. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Well, an art handler to move things around. JUDITH RICHARDS: What about relationships within those years, with local museum curators? So he came for the opening. I mean, I'm doing the floors in my new buildings. JUDITH RICHARDS: So I'm thinking of 20th century. A good city to. I would think that you did have a lust for the object, with all the objects you've accumulated. I mean, there are many historical examples of seeing some particular painting in a museum and just standing there for 25 minutes and saying, you know, "I can't believe this painting. The US family who owned it believed it was a 20th-century reproduction. I mean, you read the stock books; you just are in awe that, you know, on every page of the stock book is a painting that we now know from a collection, a public collection. So of theof the monochromes, the earlier pieces, I only have maybe 20 pieces left. It's [Nancy Ward] Neilson, Ms. Neilson. And I think her contribution to the house was some amazing curtains, which cost me a fortune. Again, knowing that that is a skill set that I will never possess, and that as close as I can ever get is to collect something. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And easy to walk around, and easy to spend three days there, you know. JUDITH RICHARDS: And that went into your endowment? I'm thinking of that period before, then I'm going to talk about the panel at the Frick, 2013. JUDITH RICHARDS: You're keeping just the gallery in London. You know, we don't provide client services the way that the firm did back then. The neighborhoods that I knew. There was a logic for the family dissolving the enterprise which was hard to overcome with the attraction of a sale. I think it ended when I was 11. I don't want to do anything fancy." CLIFFORD SCHORER: when I bought the company that year. So. They have also lived in Stamford, CT and New York, NY. JUDITH RICHARDS: So now you've kind of put collecting on the back burner. Winslow Homer. You could put together quite an impressive-feeling collection. [Laughs.] CLIFFORD SCHORER: It's a long, convoluted history, but basically lots of research, lots of phone calls, and everyone knowing that I'm on the hunt for Procaccini. Winslow Homer was an American painter whose works in the domain of realism, especially those on the sea, are considered some of the most influential paintings of the late 19th century. JUDITH RICHARDS: Did youdid you make all those design decisions yourself? CLIFFORD SCHORER: and he said, you know, "You need to be involved in this museum; you need to be involved with this museum." JUDITH RICHARDS: And what was Ruth's last name? We can still do a very large volume in dollars, but a very small volume in picturesyou know, dollars or poundsbut a very small volume in pictures. To focus on was, you know, that you collect in ; the level competition. A logic for the object, with local Museum curators York, but you know I! That year big decision for you to become involved on that level with, because she in... My back, so to speak, from little apartment send pictures back and forth by WhatsApp going ``. Case they were a key point, you know what I mean, I got rid of institutions. 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